Peoples Panel Meeting 21st Oct
22 October 2011 by Paul Rhoades
Just a quick mention of Nic Dakin's people's panel which was held last night from 7 to 9 pm at "The House" on Ashby Road.
It was the first one which I have been to, and it was a real pleasure not just to see Nic engaging is such an open and frank manner with his electorate, but to also meet some fellow posters on www.VisitScunthorpe.Com
The format of the evening reminded me to some degree of my polytechnic days, with visitors organised in to groups of 7 or 8 and sat around tables. There were 3 facilitators (Nic and two staff from his office, Andrea and Lorraine) and they visited each table individually in turn and discussed Europe, Health and the Economy.
It was great to see the range of people there, ranging from several college students through to retired steel workers.
I must say, while I disagree with Nic's (aka the Labour Party's) stance on the EU Referendum, I do respect him greatly for holding public sessions like this and discussing his position and the views of residents so robustly. I'd be lying if I said that a consensus was reached by every one, there were several very heated debates but it was all very healthy and dare I say it far more than I recall his predecessor undertaking.
As far as the EU Referendum goes, I take Nic's point that at this moment in time a referendum could well be a distraction to resolving the issues with jobs and the economy, a priority every one there agreed on. However, we've always been promised a referendum on the power of the EU and its never been delivered, our membership of the EU is in my opinion "by default".
Having said this, if there was a referendum, given the choice of staying in or leaving I'd probably come down on the side of staying in. However, I do think that there is a need to look at some of the power which has been devolved to the EU, but this would have to be a discussion for another day.
After a tea break Nic took individual questions from the floor, these were not pre-submitted or pre approved and I thought that he did a good job with most of them. It also gave me a chance to plug the Ashby Pond Conservation Group we've recently started and to also thank him for attending a meeting with the council to discuss options and ensure we had their attention.
I'll conclude by saying that while I do not necessarily agree with all of the policies of Nic's party, I do sincerely believe that Nic was the right choice for Scunthorpe, and he continues to demonstrate this with his commitment to the town as a local MP.
Anyway, if you went along last night - drop us a comment on this thread and tell us what you thought, and if you didn't go, why not book a place at the next one (21st Jan I think) by ringing Nic's office in town on 01724 842000
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Comments
That's a bit harsh, he's supporting emphatically labours manifesto that he stood on.
Saying that... It's perhaps a good example as to why politicians should not be ruled by party politics? <
Tricky.
he was elected to represent us not the labour party,if he's a party Bully he should resign his seat and be paid by the party
I had the pleasure of attending Nic Dakin’s People’s Panel and I give him credit for listening to a variety of cross party views on the chosen topics of Europe, the economy and the NHS and credit to the panellists who politely bit their tongue when I espoused a healthy dose of Austrian economics and free market competition for the health service and the country in general.
I vigorously disagreed with the position that the EU referendum would be a distraction from the problems of the economy and several panellists failed to see the connection between the state of the economy and our membership of the EU. As stated in my previous post (http://www.visitscunthorpe.com/ScunthorpeNews/Headline/European-Bailouts-and-an-EU-Referendum) the UK Coalition government recently increased our commitment to IMF funding from £10.5 to £19.7 billion to bail out overspending countries such as Greece and other struggling Eurozone countries. This increase is almost as much as the cuts made to our own UK budgets. Also the UK's payments to the European Union almost doubled in 2010, soaring to £230 for every household in the country. The ONS said that the net transfer of funds from Britain to EU institutions rose from £5.3bn in 2009 to £9.2bn in 2010, a jump of almost £4bn, or 74 per cent – enough to avoid the rise in national insurance or the 50p rate of tax. The UK's contributions to the EU are at their highest level ever, and one of the very few areas of public spending set to increase in coming years despite the cutbacks being made across Britain.
80% of our GDP is related to internal trade and only 20% with exports of which only half of that is with the EU yet the rules and regulations that emanate from Brussels affects all our economic activity. In an interview with The Financial Times former Commission Vice-President Günther Verheugen said he had made a new estimate of the annual cost of regulation to the EU economies, and it amounted to an extraordinary €600 Billion. That's around 5.5% of EU GDP. A Dutch report estimates their economic growth would be 2% higher without EU regulation. It is quite clear to me that we would be better off out and securing a referendum to that end is the HIGHEST priority for our politicians.
I attended the panel meeting too and I think the article is a very fair assessment of what went on. While there are a number of viewpoints held by Nic that I don't necessarily agree with I have to say that a huge point in his favour is the willingness to hold events like this. It is far, far more than many politicians would be willing to do which is the point Thoades made after the meeting.
Nic did raise the important observation on the night that he was voted in on a "basket of policies" like any MP. The limitation of democracy is that you can very rarely vote for someone that holds exactly the same view as you on the scores of issues that our government deals with (education, helath, defence, Europe etc) and who will then work just to please you or I as an individual. This presents people (including myself) with too good an opportunity to slate our politicians for not truly representing us and perhaps we do need to be more positive about our local councillors and MPs.
For me though it presents an opportunity for us to take a wider look at politics and look towards an alternative with less party politics, and individuals standing for election based on their abilities, background, CV and local knowledge rather than being so heavily reliant on the "party machine".
Or perhaps I'm just bitter at never being a member of a political party!! :-)
Couldn't agree more.
As you say, MP's are represented on a broad basket of issues enveloped in their party mechanism making it practically impossible for any MP to represent views which match the individual, under the current system.
What is interesting to see at the moment however is how the "consensus" system is working at the occupy sites around the country. Whether you agree with their aims is irrelevant to my point here, as what I think is particularly refreshing is the manner in which the General Assembly is held and once a consensus is reached this is then adopted by the group.
Obviously with a small group / community of 5/600 people its a lot easier than trying to put it in place for a town or parish, but I think this interaction at a local level is something we are going to see a lot more of.
I think that Nic's leading the way on this, and would dearly like to see the local council convening in a similar manner on perhaps a monthly basis with the leader of the council and some cabinet members / support staff discussing local issues, concerns and policy with residents. This would in my opinion be more democratic and would allow the public to have a say on a few things which seem to have just "gone ahead" without mandate. For example, reduction in library hours, closure of registry office and redecorating of Pitwood House, Felling of trees in the park have all "just happened" in recent weeks without (as far as I am aware) any mention in the council's manifesto, or consultation with the public.
Agree with his politics or not, more politicos should and hopefully will take a leaf from Nic's book and follow his style of consultation and engagement with the public on a regular basis. Anything else is just a sham of democracy and lacks accountability or indeed the willingness to be accountable.
Again right in what you say Thoades, particularly about the council level meetings.They would be fantstic to see.
However whatever panel discussions take place people who attend must be willing to listen to debate. Whether staunch Tory, Labour or Lib Dem, if honest discussions need to be had about closing libraries, cutting down trees (although on that one I think it was just a "b*lls up" as opposed to a political statement!) or shutting the Register Office then closed minds and the attitude of block voting needs to be blown away. In other words lets start to see some Tory councillors (and MPs) start to have their own opinion and vote against their party; and ditto for the other parties. Whatever political, philosophical or religious principles are at stake, sometimes (but not always) people need to vote with their head rather than their heart if the evidence is there. That's not being weak surely?
Where an issue is being discussed at a meeting and people don't go along with at least some small part of them saying that they are either open minded or that they are willing to change their opinion if the evidence is there then what's the point in the debate? If councillors and residents go along with the attitude of supporting "Option 1" because thats what the party says is right at a national level then these meetings simply turn into a "which party can get the most people to turn up" competition.
Human nature being what it is though we are all guilty of not challenging our own attitudes and opinions. Whether on the big things or the small things. If I fancy night out I shy away from the ballet and the opera because I've convinced myself I would not enjoy it. I've never tried but where is the harm in trying? When I read books I read authors whose opinions I agree with not those I see as being "wrong". Even though there may be something valuable in looking at things from the other side.
Sadly I think that human nature being what it is these party principles too often stand in the way of possible compromise and sensible well thought out dialogue and decision making...
I wish i could be enthesiatic about the panel but i cant.
my mind has been really shattered with what transpired on friday. its taken me two days to moticate myself to bother with responding to what was said.
What we have here is the complete breakdown to democracy in this country and no-one really seems to see this.
Whether you agree with a referendum on EU membership or not is IRELLAVANT! Why you have to ask is beyond me. regardless of what the subject matter of the oppinion is, the our politicians WILL NOT do what the concencus of the country wishes!!!!
its quite a helpless feeling. The scary thing is there are people who actually support this action by the MPs to totally ignore the wishes of the majority.
It doesnt matter that the majority is huge because the people in the minority are the ones that are in charge. they have the power, ultimately they will do what they want.
Im sorry guys im out for a while becasue this has got me. im in that 'its not worth it anymore, phase. ill be back, i just need some time off this. Its kinda demoralising when you see something rather depressing happening so i need to have a period of just not thinking about this.
I know a few...not very many, but a few, will try and say that its not all that bad, and i know that, but different events in history affect diferent people in different ways and i guess this historic event is affecting me in a way that other people just dont understand.
bottom line is i need a short break to recharge my batteries. call it an #occupyignore im just gonna ignore my MP for a while becasue i know that his descision cant be swayed not matter how many people oppose his descision. The guy basically doesnt care about the majority! he is not even sorry about it. ill give it up for nic he is a pricipled man. i firmly believe his principles are one of his finest qualities as our MP, but there are times when you would think a carefull, smart and logical person can do the exact opposite to what a very large body of people. We are bound by the MP/constituent bond, that trust we give to MP's to represent us in parliament.
My MP just broke that trust, so off for a while.
my mind has been really shattered with what transpired on friday. its taken me two days to moticate myself to bother with responding to what was said.
What we have here is the complete breakdown to democracy in this country and no-one really seems to see this.
Whether you agree with a referendum on EU membership or not is IRELLAVANT! Why you have to ask is beyond me. regardless of what the subject matter of the oppinion is, the our politicians WILL NOT do what the concencus of the country wishes!!!!
its quite a helpless feeling. The scary thing is there are people who actually support this action by the MPs to totally ignore the wishes of the majority.
It doesnt matter that the majority is huge because the people in the minority are the ones that are in charge. they have the power, ultimately they will do what they want.
Im sorry guys im out for a while becasue this has got me. im in that 'its not worth it anymore, phase. ill be back, i just need some time off this. Its kinda demoralising when you see something rather depressing happening so i need to have a period of just not thinking about this.
I know a few...not very many, but a few, will try and say that its not all that bad, and i know that, but different events in history affect diferent people in different ways and i guess this historic event is affecting me in a way that other people just dont understand.
bottom line is i need a short break to recharge my batteries. call it an #occupyignore im just gonna ignore my MP for a while becasue i know that his descision cant be swayed not matter how many people oppose his descision. The guy basically doesnt care about the majority! he is not even sorry about it. ill give it up for nic he is a pricipled man. i firmly believe his principles are one of his finest qualities as our MP, but there are times when you would think a carefull, smart and logical person can do the exact opposite to what a very large body of people. We are bound by the MP/constituent bond, that trust we give to MP's to represent us in parliament.
My MP just broke that trust, so off for a while.
Sorry to hear you so despondant Neil. I can understand your disappointment with the EU discussion. But the "fight" (if that's what it is) has not and will not be lost in one small meeting in a community hall in Scunthorpe . Sorry but I'm one of the few in this case who says its not that bad - yet. It's taken 30+ years to get here, it will take a while to get the solution. Perhaps I am after all more cynical in that I expect to lose lots of battles before even a small one is won. Perhaps my standards are lower in that just having an MP willing to meet and talk to the community is good (for now). However from little acorns and all that.
I would just make an observation. Democracy is not JUST about the majority view. Only once during the five year election cycle is it about a public majority (and sometimes not even THAT often given the result of the 2010 election!) Democracy is NOT the same as simple majoritism. Democracy is about electing those we see as the best people to represent us. The system is ridiculous of course, but simple "majoritism" is even more problematic. Polls have shown at various times that 75% are in favour of capital punishment - does that mean it should be returned to? Maybe yes and maybe no. I'm sure if a simplistic poll was cast asking "would you like to pay less tax" the answer would be a resounding demand for paying ideally nothing. Again the question is is too simplistic but the majority doesn't always rule. Indeed we are often critical of politicians for jumping on "popular bandwagons" just to win a few more votes. We can't have it both ways I suppose.
This is not intended to belittle the EU question and your obvious passion. I was impressed with you and David at the meeting who spoke very eloquently about the issue and feel sure that there will be more opportunities to air opinions. Personally my view is that on balance we probably get less out of Europe than we put in (and not just financially) and we should be looking at pulling out of this particualr club. Look at all the international clubs that exist now and have existed G&, G20, NATO, UN, Commonwealth are they all necessary? But I'm there to be convinced differently and wish we could have a referendum so we can all see more and vote accordingly.
Keep smiling mate...the day will come....:-)
Some great feedback.
Perhaps efforts would be better spent not debating what is at the end of the day a some what academic issue in the context we are viewing it in this discussion, but perhaps instead lobbying the council leaders to start their own People's Panel here in North Lincolnshire.
With the council meetings down to just 2 a year, the door does seem to be firmly shut in the face of the general public.
However, I will confess, that with the work I've been doing with the Ashby Pond Conservation group, the leader of the council is prepared to meet and discuss with residents groups on various single issue subjects.
Perhaps a group of those interested could put together an open letter inviting her and her cabinet to take part in a people's panel style discussion similar to that which Nic organised last Friday.
Like Paul C said, its taken 30 years to get our MP to engage in as open and enthusiastic manner as Nic does, now this surely has to be the first step? The other thing I'll say about Nic, is that he always responds to email promptly and is also keen to accept requests to speak at meetings etc even when he know's that his opinion is not necessarily going to match that of the group he is addressing.
Lets hope that our council leaders note of this and consider a people's panel of their own.
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